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Quotes to consider Options
Mwalacavage
#901 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:46:54 PM

Rank: King



Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 14,097
monk37 wrote:
Mwalacavage wrote:
Rome is an Apostolic throne, not the Apostolic throne. Augustine too is misquoted on the same point of grammar

This I must wonder about. Augustine, being educated, was fluent in Greek...but I am unaware of any important writing of his in that language. In Latin, a distinction between "the" and "an", can only be made by context...at least objectively!


I see what you mean now, "misquoted on the same point of grammar" is not clearly accurate even if the contextual issue over 'the' or 'an' and 'See' singular, and 'Sees' plural that Augustine uses support the same point.

Good eye and mind cavage, you could easily help edit and refine this rough draft of the article.

Thank you. I did go to the talk page and challenged the principal author about this point. I shall see it there is an appropriate response.

There are 2 bases for any ethical system. (1) Aristocratic code (2) Religion. Liberals reject both which leaves them with exactly nothing… A man without code or religion has no other reason other than mere preference to consider any interests other than his own. Why should “he think in time” beyond his own life [or] hesitate to expoit anyone?


We have a new type of rule now. Not one-man rule, or rule of aristocracy or plutocracy, but of small groups elevated to positions of absolute power by random pressures and subject to political and economic factors that leave little room for decision.

They are representatives of abstract forces who have reached power through surrender of self. The iron-willed dictator is a thing of past.

There will be no more Stalins, no more Hitlers.

The rulers of this most insecure of all worlds are rulers by accident. Inept, frightened pilots at the controls of a vast machine they cannot understand, calling in experts to tell them which buttons to push.

William Seward Burroughs
monk37
#902 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2018 11:39:48 PM

Rank: King




Joined: 5/21/2011
Posts: 2,772
Location: Nebraska
Mwalacavage wrote:
monk37 wrote:
Mwalacavage wrote:
Rome is an Apostolic throne, not the Apostolic throne. Augustine too is misquoted on the same point of grammar

This I must wonder about. Augustine, being educated, was fluent in Greek...but I am unaware of any important writing of his in that language. In Latin, a distinction between "the" and "an", can only be made by context...at least objectively!


I see what you mean now, "misquoted on the same point of grammar" is not clearly accurate even if the contextual issue over 'the' or 'an' and 'See' singular, and 'Sees' plural that Augustine uses support the same point.

Good eye and mind cavage, you could easily help edit and refine this rough draft of the article.

Thank you. I did go to the talk page and challenged the principal author about this point. I shall see it there is an appropriate response.


Well thank you, and well done! After all that's what we all should want, more plain truth from all angles.

BETWEENTHELINES
cheriq
#903 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:38:16 PM

Rank: King



Joined: 4/2/2013
Posts: 47,212
monk37 wrote:
Mwalacavage wrote:
monk37 wrote:
Mwalacavage wrote:
Rome is an Apostolic throne, not the Apostolic throne. Augustine too is misquoted on the same point of grammar

This I must wonder about. Augustine, being educated, was fluent in Greek...but I am unaware of any important writing of his in that language. In Latin, a distinction between "the" and "an", can only be made by context...at least objectively!


I see what you mean now, "misquoted on the same point of grammar" is not clearly accurate even if the contextual issue over 'the' or 'an' and 'See' singular, and 'Sees' plural that Augustine uses support the same point.

Good eye and mind cavage, you could easily help edit and refine this rough draft of the article.

Thank you. I did go to the talk page and challenged the principal author about this point. I shall see it there is an appropriate response.


Well thank you, and well done! After all that's what we all should want, more plain truth from all angles.


There ya go! "Plain truth" is not expressed in beliefs, opinions, and faith. Those things don't have a discernible right or wrong. To argue those things is pointless. But, most grammar has a right or a wrong.
Can we just admit we may have taken this 'anyone can grow up to be President' thing just a bit too far?

Remember back when Sarah Palin was the craziest person in politics? GOOD TIMES.

In order to insult me, I must first value your opinion...nice try though.

I'm going to quit asking, "How dumb can you get?" People seem to be taking it as a challenge.

KEEP TALKING. I'm diagnosing you.







monk37
#904 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 8:40:48 PM

Rank: King




Joined: 5/21/2011
Posts: 2,772
Location: Nebraska
cheriq wrote:

There ya go! "Plain truth" is not expressed in beliefs, opinions, and faith. Those things don't have a discernible right or wrong. To argue those things is pointless. But, most grammar has a right or a wrong.


Sounds like you have faith in the opinion that there is no discernible right or wrong outside a sound belief in most proper grammar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Nihilism (/ˈnaɪwackedoutsunnyfaceɪlɪzəm, ˈniː-/ ; from Latin nihil, meaning 'nothing'wink is the philosophical viewpoint that suggests the denial or lack of belief towards the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.

BETWEENTHELINES
cheriq
#905 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 8:41:21 PM

Rank: King



Joined: 4/2/2013
Posts: 47,212


“Why doesn't the pope convert to Calvinism? Why doesn't the Dalai Lama, convert to Christianity, why doesn't Billy Graham convert to Islam, Why doesn't the Ayatollahs convert to Buddhism, Why isn't Buddhism swept away? Religious leaders know that all religions are equal; they know that no one of them has the monopoly to the knowledge of God. They know that each religion is trying to find the hidden God and that no one religion can claim to have found him beyond doubt. That's why they remain where they are and respect each other.”
― Bangambiki Habyarimana, Pearls Of Eternity
Can we just admit we may have taken this 'anyone can grow up to be President' thing just a bit too far?

Remember back when Sarah Palin was the craziest person in politics? GOOD TIMES.

In order to insult me, I must first value your opinion...nice try though.

I'm going to quit asking, "How dumb can you get?" People seem to be taking it as a challenge.

KEEP TALKING. I'm diagnosing you.







cheriq
#906 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 8:44:42 PM

Rank: King



Joined: 4/2/2013
Posts: 47,212
monk37 wrote:
cheriq wrote:

There ya go! "Plain truth" is not expressed in beliefs, opinions, and faith. Those things don't have a discernible right or wrong. To argue those things is pointless. But, most grammar has a right or a wrong.


Sounds like you have faith in the opinion that there is no discernible right or wrong outside a sound belief in proper grammar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Nihilism (/ˈnaɪwackedoutsunnyfaceɪlɪzəm, ˈniː-/ ; from Latin nihil, meaning 'nothing'wink is the philosophical viewpoint that suggests the denial or lack of belief towards the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.


LOL Ach - I'm but a simple lass; and will leave the complexities to others as I see no merit in confusion.
Can we just admit we may have taken this 'anyone can grow up to be President' thing just a bit too far?

Remember back when Sarah Palin was the craziest person in politics? GOOD TIMES.

In order to insult me, I must first value your opinion...nice try though.

I'm going to quit asking, "How dumb can you get?" People seem to be taking it as a challenge.

KEEP TALKING. I'm diagnosing you.







monk37
#907 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:05:06 PM

Rank: King




Joined: 5/21/2011
Posts: 2,772
Location: Nebraska
cheriq wrote:
monk37 wrote:
cheriq wrote:

There ya go! "Plain truth" is not expressed in beliefs, opinions, and faith. Those things don't have a discernible right or wrong. To argue those things is pointless. But, most grammar has a right or a wrong.


Sounds like you have faith in the opinion that there is no discernible right or wrong outside a sound belief in proper grammar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Nihilism (/ˈnaɪwackedoutsunnyfaceɪlɪzəm, ˈniː-/ ; from Latin nihil, meaning 'nothing'wink is the philosophical viewpoint that suggests the denial or lack of belief towards the reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.


Ach - I'm but a simple lass; and will leave the complexities to others as I see no merit in confusion.


Excellent quote .. a keeper!

BETWEENTHELINES
cfirebird65
#908 Posted : Saturday, December 01, 2018 10:01:21 AM

Rank: King



Joined: 10/7/2009
Posts: 17,785
St. Irenaeus of Lyons (second century):

"We can enumerate those who were appointed by the Apostles as bishops in the churches as their successors even to our time" (Against Heresies 3.1).

In the next section, Irenaeus begins to list the successors of Peter at Rome with these words:

"But since it would be too long, in a work like this, to list the successions in all the churches, we shall take only one of them, the church that is greatest, most ancient, and known to all, founded and set up by the two most glorious apostles Peter and Paul at Rome while showing that the tradition and the faith it proclaims to men comes down through the successions of the bishops even to us" (ibid., 3.2).

Psalm 51:7 (NAB) "Behold, I was born in guilt, In sin my mother conceived me." This verse tells us that we are conceived in the iniquity of sin, hence the need to baptize infants.

Mt.19:14-15 "LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME." Jesus did not exclude infants from His salvific graces nor put any age requirement on the Sacrament of Baptism.

Acts 2:38-39 "Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you AND TO YOUR CHILDREN". This verse includes children, even infants. Intellectual assent by infants and children under the age of reason was not required in the NT.

"Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Ch. 7, The Didache on 'Baptism, A.D. 70

"The Church has received from the Apostles the custom of administering Baptism even to infants.....all are tainted with the stain of original sin, which must be washed off by water and the Spirit." Origen (185-254 A.D) on 'Baptism,' Alexandrian, Philosopher, Theologian and Writer



cfirebird65
#909 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2018 10:49:16 PM

Rank: King



Joined: 10/7/2009
Posts: 17,785
Quotes from St. Cyril of Alexandria, AD 378 - 444. He was a Doctor of the Catholic Church who shaped Christianity and defended the Church from three main attacks - The Novationists, Jews and Nestorians. He was also a distinguished theologian and the champion against oriental rationalism.

"Christ said indicating (the bread and wine): 'This is My Body,' and `This is My Blood,' in order that you might not judge what you see to be a mere figure. The offerings, by the hidden power of God Almighty, are changed into Christ's Body and Blood, and by receiving these we come to share in the life-giving and sanctifying efficacy of Christ." Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew 26,27, 428 A.D.

"We have been instructed in these matters and filled with an unshakable faith, that that which seems to be bread, is not bread, though it tastes like it, but the Body of Christ, and that which seems to be wine, is not wine, though it too tastes as such, but the Blood of Christ . . . draw inner strength by receiving this bread as spiritual food and your soul will rejoice." "Catecheses," 22, 9; "Myst." 4; 444 A.D.

“And in no wise do we suffer to be shaken by any one, the faith defined, or the symbol of faith settled, by our fathers, who assembled, in their day, at Nicea. Neither do we allow ourselves, or any other to alter a word there set down, or even to omit a single syllable, mindful of that saying: 'Remove not the ancient land-marks which thy fathers have set.' "To John of Antioch, 5, A.D. 433.

Psalm 51:7 (NAB) "Behold, I was born in guilt, In sin my mother conceived me." This verse tells us that we are conceived in the iniquity of sin, hence the need to baptize infants.

Mt.19:14-15 "LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME." Jesus did not exclude infants from His salvific graces nor put any age requirement on the Sacrament of Baptism.

Acts 2:38-39 "Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you AND TO YOUR CHILDREN". This verse includes children, even infants. Intellectual assent by infants and children under the age of reason was not required in the NT.

"Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Ch. 7, The Didache on 'Baptism, A.D. 70

"The Church has received from the Apostles the custom of administering Baptism even to infants.....all are tainted with the stain of original sin, which must be washed off by water and the Spirit." Origen (185-254 A.D) on 'Baptism,' Alexandrian, Philosopher, Theologian and Writer



dajcat
#910 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2018 1:25:11 PM

Rank: King


Joined: 6/6/2008
Posts: 15,831
Acts 15: 29
that you abstain from meats offered to idols AND FROM BLOOD.

watchman David

cfirebird65
#911 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 2:53:23 AM

Rank: King



Joined: 10/7/2009
Posts: 17,785
Mark 7

18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

Jesus here is articulating a general principle that what comes into the body from outside does not defile us morally. (Instead, the evil thoughts that come from within us do).



Psalm 51:7 (NAB) "Behold, I was born in guilt, In sin my mother conceived me." This verse tells us that we are conceived in the iniquity of sin, hence the need to baptize infants.

Mt.19:14-15 "LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME." Jesus did not exclude infants from His salvific graces nor put any age requirement on the Sacrament of Baptism.

Acts 2:38-39 "Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you AND TO YOUR CHILDREN". This verse includes children, even infants. Intellectual assent by infants and children under the age of reason was not required in the NT.

"Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Ch. 7, The Didache on 'Baptism, A.D. 70

"The Church has received from the Apostles the custom of administering Baptism even to infants.....all are tainted with the stain of original sin, which must be washed off by water and the Spirit." Origen (185-254 A.D) on 'Baptism,' Alexandrian, Philosopher, Theologian and Writer



cfirebird65
#912 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 3:43:15 AM

Rank: King



Joined: 10/7/2009
Posts: 17,785
Quotes from Luther,the father of Protestantism:

What would it matter if, for the sake of greater good and of the Christian Church, one were to tell a good, downright lie? (Lenz, Luther’s Letters, Leipzig, 1891, vol. 1, 382)

Luther believed that polygamy was sanctioned in Scripture:

I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. (De Wette, vol. 2, 459)

On the contrary, Jesus Christ (Matt 19:6-9) and St. Paul (Rom 7:3; I Cor 7:2; Eph 5:32-33) presupposed monogamy as normative for the Christian.

Psalm 51:7 (NAB) "Behold, I was born in guilt, In sin my mother conceived me." This verse tells us that we are conceived in the iniquity of sin, hence the need to baptize infants.

Mt.19:14-15 "LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME." Jesus did not exclude infants from His salvific graces nor put any age requirement on the Sacrament of Baptism.

Acts 2:38-39 "Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you AND TO YOUR CHILDREN". This verse includes children, even infants. Intellectual assent by infants and children under the age of reason was not required in the NT.

"Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Ch. 7, The Didache on 'Baptism, A.D. 70

"The Church has received from the Apostles the custom of administering Baptism even to infants.....all are tainted with the stain of original sin, which must be washed off by water and the Spirit." Origen (185-254 A.D) on 'Baptism,' Alexandrian, Philosopher, Theologian and Writer



dajcat
#913 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:51:12 PM

Rank: King


Joined: 6/6/2008
Posts: 15,831
what has your response with the sayings of Martin Luther to do with the drinking of blood? BUT INCED YOU BROUGHT IT UP READ THE FOLLOWING.

Reformation period[edit]
When asked for an opinion on polygamy in 1526, Luther wrote, "It is my earnest warning and counsel that Christians especially shall have no more than one wife, not only because it is a scandal, which a Christian should avoid most diligently, but also because there is no word of God here to show that God approves it in Christians.... I must oppose it, especially in Christians, unless there be need, as for instance if the wife be a leper, or be taken away from the husband in some other way.


watchman David
dajcat
#914 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 2:43:52 PM

Rank: King


Joined: 6/6/2008
Posts: 15,831
from another source:


helpful picture of Luther on this topic:
In a letter addressed to Joseph Levin Metzsch of December 9, 1526, Luther says: "Your first question: Whether person may have more than one wife? I answer thus: Let unbelievers do what they please; Christian liberty, however, is regulated by love (charity), so that all that a Christian does is done to serve his fellow-man, provided only that he can render such service without jeopardy and damage to his faith and conscience. Nowadays, however, everybody is striving for a liberty that profits and pleases him, without regard for the profit and improvement which his neighbor might derive from his action. This is contrary to the teaching of St. Paul, who says: 'All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient' (1 Cor. 6, 12). Only see that your liberty does not become an occasion to the flesh. . . . Moreover, although the patriarchs had many wives, Christians may not follow their example, because there is no necessity for doing this, no improvement is obtained thereby, and, especially, there is no word of God to justify this practise, while great offense and trouble may come from it. Accordingly, I do not believe that Christians any longer have this liberty. God would have to publish a command that would declare such a liberty." (21a, 901 f.) To Clemens Ursinus, pastor at Bruck, Luther writes under date of March 21, 1527: "Polygamy, which in former times was permitted to the Jews and Gentiles, cannot be honestly approved of among Christians, and cannot be engaged in with a good conscience, unless in an extreme case of necessity, as, for instance, when one of the spouses is separated from the other by leprosy or for a similar cause. Accordingly, you may say to the carnal people (with whom you have to do), if they want to be Christians, they must keep married fidelity and bridle their flesh, not give it license. If they want to be heathen, let them do what they please, at their own risk." (21a, 928.)


watchman David



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