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 Rank: King  Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer]This final seven year period will begin when the future Roman prince "confirms a covenant" that will involve the nation of Israel and the city of Jerusalem. This researcher has been led to the belief that this future Roman prince will be the False Prophet of bible prophecy, and that he may indeed be a leader of the post-rapture apostate Roman Catholic Church. This is Baptist bull twinkies. None of it is from the Word of God. I thought you paid Faith Bible College to teach you the Word of God. But instead, you are indulging in your favorite past time - gazing at your crystal ball!
The author of the link you provided is another tea leaves gazer and glue sniffer. Together you make a fine couple preparing to rapture off to heaven or hell. Just who is the fortune teller you bought your snake oil prophecies from? Peter Goodman is another Tim LeHaye peddling his Prophecy Watch" television program. He produces "Prophecy-In-Pictures," an internet teaching ministry at prophecywatch.com, and edits the bi-monthly, "Spirit of Prophecy" news-magazine. Way to go, Sally! How well you and Goodman exalt the devil's work with your penchant for sooth-saying. Is. 2:6 Vs. 6 refers to fortune-tellers and soothsayers: divination was strictly forbidden.
The devil loves soothsayers. They take people's minds off Christ and focus on themselves and their fears. Such people make me sick because they do not worship God in truth and spirit and undivided hearts.
Take him with you to your Protestant thread. You will find a fertile field to spread around your fear-mongering IFB prophecies and your anti-Catholic hate-mongering. If you don't, I will be happy to dump any further nonsense of yours there, just like I did with dajcat's tripe. Now, let me use your tea leaves and tell you what they are saying to me. "The future leader will come out of the post-rapture apostate Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church that you subscribe to." "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer] "Charles Chiniquy (1809-1899) a Canadian Presbyterian convert from Roman Catholicism, left the church of Rome and joined the Canadian Presbyterian Church taking his congregation at Kankakee with him. (From "The Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church," page 90, Elgin S. Moyer, 1982, ©Moody Press, Chicago, IL) ....Thirty Years in Hell by Ex-Priest, Bernard Fresenborg This is further proof of your anti-Catholic HATRED.
- First, you don't do your research - which is obvious from your brainless clip and paste jobs! None of them carry the truth of Catholic teachings. They are lies and propaganda from ex-priests. And you do the devil's work of spreading such evil around.
Would you like me to post what ex-Baptists have to say about your religion? I would be happy to oblige so the playing field can be leveled.
- Second, any dirt on the RCC can also be flung right back at you with the lurid accounts of your Baptist religion and history. But I prefer to heed Christ's injunction that whatever comes out of the heart is defiled. You have certainly showed everyone what is in your heart! And you let it spill out in your hatred, spite, malice and false allegations against Catholics. None of that exalts God. You are a false teacher.
- Third, your post is not from the Word of God. It is typical anti-Catholic propaganda from Faith Bible College, fear-mongering gothic fiction from Peter Goodman, anti-Catholic websites that have dubious authorship and credentials, and Hislop's pseudohistorical writings which were debunked by Ralph Woodrow.
- Fourth, since you don't know how to play ball, how about I start listing your muck-raking tactics like I did with mudcat?
- Fifth, such troubled behavior speaks of an empty spirit devoid of God's truth. Obviously, your religion doesn't satisfy you spiritually. You used to get angry with danreal when he attacked Christians with his offensive posts and lies. You are a clone of his - dressed in skirts.
- Sixth, the Holy Spirit bypassed you big time. No wonder you are clueless about the truth of Chiniquy, remain walled in the dark about your own religion and about the truth of Catholicism, and even what your pastor doesn't tell you.
- Seventh, you look foolish and ignorant when your MO is exposed, and your hands are soiled with your dirty deeds towards Catholics. SHAME ON YOU!
All I need is one error from your posts to denounce the rest of the writing. Starting with Chiniquy....
Chiniquy did not leave the RCC voluntarily, but was expelled from it in 1851 by the Bishop of Montreal because the Church would not tolerate his immorality. The renegade Chiniquy pretended repentance, promised to behave himself, and persuaded another Catholic Bishop to accept his services. But in 1856, he was again expelled for immorality. Some foolish Protestants gathered this weed up and carefully cultivated him as a precious plant. They later excommunicated him and that is why he started his own religious organization. - From Dr. Leslie Rumble, former Anglican convert and Catholic Priest.Where does Sally's anti-Catholic hysteria come from? Ssh, she doesn't know, or she will deny it!
"Hislop's and Chiniquy's 19th century polemics and Avro Manhattan's work form part of the basis of a series of tracts by the modern anti-Catholic and comic book Baptist fundamentalist, Jack Chick. He accuses the papacy of supporting Communism to incite revolutions, and of masterminding the Holocaust. Chick claims that the Catholic Church infiltrates and attempts to destroy or corrupt all other religions and churches, and that it uses various means including seduction, framing, and murder to silence its critics. Chick also claims that the Catholic Church helped mold Islam as a tool to lure people away from Christianity in what he calls the Vatican Islam Conspiracy....." Sourced from Wikipedia, Anti-Catholicism
Sally,s trashy piece on ex-Catholic priests, is pulp fiction - another anti-Catholic hoax. "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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Matthew 5:21- 26
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shall not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement.
BUT I SAY UNTO YOU. THAT WHOSOVEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGEMENT: AND WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY TO HIS BROTHER, RACA. SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE COUNCIL; BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, THOU FOOL,SHALL BE IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE.
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there remebererest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shall by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthling"
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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These are the instructions which Jesus left for those who would take over the leadership of his new movement after his impending departure : "For, they (the lawfully established clergy of his time) preach but do not practice. They pile up back-breaking burdens and lay them on other men's shoulders -- yet they themselves will not so much as raise a finger to move them. Their whole lives are planned with an eye to effect. They increase the size of their prayer books and lengthen the tassels of their robes; they love seats of honor at public functions and front places and to have men call them "rabbi" or "teacher". As for yourselves (the clergy that would follow Jesus), don't you ever be called "rabbi" -- you only have one teacher, and all of you are brother of one another. And don't call any human being "father" -- for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. And you must not let people call you "leaders" -- for you have only one leader, the Anointed One (Christ). The only "superior" among you is the one who serves the others. For, every man who promotes himself will be humbled, and every man who learns to be humble will find promotion. But alas for you, you scribes and Pharisees, play actors (hypocrites) that you are! You lock the doors of the kingdom of Heaven in men's faces. You will not go inside yourselves, and neither will you allow others to enter." (Matt. Ch. 23) ( See http://CatholicArrogance...g/callnomanfather.html. )
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Rank: King  Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 1,931 Location: Purgatory
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Cool. So I can call my dad up and say "Hey, Gary!" and he should have no cause to dispute this! Slick! If catholicism is bothering you, why do you not go into other threads? Like my Nana said when I bit into my first taste of srapple and cringed: "At least you tried it". "I'm not here. Leave a message!"
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU. THAT WHOSOVEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGEMENT: I will give you this much credit - you sure know how to parrot Scripture verses and run through them like a babbling brook. These verses appear to be your way of confessing to Catholics that you are angry with us without a cause. Yup! This appears to be an obvious admission of yours and on an open forum too! Maybe it is a good thing that your conscience is working at this late hour after getting quite disturbed at Catholic truths. It goes against your very indoctrination which you had ever since you were potty-trained.
You still haven't said who the founder of your newly-minted religion is. You admitted you weren't good at history. I can forgive your lapses when you give us your revisionist history like nitalandon. But you should know if it started the same year as the Wiccans, or maybe the JWs. If so, then you are in good company. Now take your scripture and be off with you until the next lecture. "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 6/6/2008 Posts: 2,167
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Oh Nic i love philadelphia scrapple. It has been a long time since I tasted it . Nic If you could go back to the first posting that Firebird made (and that goes back before this topic) one of her first statements were "if you are not RC you are not saved. It is the only true church. " I put her statement in my first original posting of the Protestant Truths and myths. Unfortunatlly CN only saves topics for one year so I could not go back and cut and paste her original statement. If she had not made that statement maybe things might be different today. No believer in Christ has the right to say they have the inside track to salvation. That "theirs" is the only way. Neither Jew , or gentile, RC or protestant. We are not going to be asked for a denominational passport when we get to the portals of heaven.
As for Jesus statement " call no one your father " is it not possible that Jesus was fortelling a time when the church would designate its ministers as" fathers." ? He was talking in a spiritual sense. He did not mean dont call your biological father "FATHER". He did not do away with the commandment "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother." Paul also spoke prophetically when he predicted that a time would come when the church would forbid marriage and would designate days when you could not eat meat. Did not your denomination do both. Meatless Fridays and Celibacy among the ministerial. ? david
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Rank: King Joined: 6/6/2008 Posts: 2,167
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Firebird you took an honest statement of mine and used it to post your sad commentary on who you are as a christian. I have warned you in the past God will only allow it for so long. Dont think that in God's eye your R Catholicism will allow you to post so vehementlly against those who disagree with you . That is not the Full armor of God that Paul speaks of. Even though you think you have it on it is nothing but filthy rags to God when you use it so vehementally against other christians. dajcat
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 1,931 Location: Purgatory
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The taste itself, David is delicious. It was the texture and snagging the wrapper from the wastecan under the sink to spy the ingredients that convicted me to stop eating the crud. I'd take Meatless Mondays any day compared to the slaughter-floor suprise that was in that packet. I'm glad you dont see it that often anymore! The forums would be dull without you putting the pencil under the proverbial rearends of the rest of us you sit behind, should you find it and clog your arteries to the point of extinction.  "I'm not here. Leave a message!"
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer]These are the instructions which Jesus left for those who would take over the leadership of his new movement after his impending departure Jesus didn't talk to you nor give you His instructions that you are falsely teaching here. And it is just as well, since you can't handle the truth. You prefer fairy tales. Moreover, Jesus appointed an authoritative Church to administer the saving ordinances, perfect the saints, call us to repentance and preach and teach ALL THAT HE TAUGHT. You don't from your limited Bible only belief from the KJV which is full of errors and lacks the 7 Books that Luther threw out. All Christ's teachings are not in the Bible. John 21:25. Nor is Christ's Church your fragmented 39,000 denominations of believers which came after the reformation. Your teachings from your Baptist polemics can never tell the truth about Christ's teachings. Because telling the truth is admitting you are Catholic. So inventing stories to cover the gaps in your beliefs, is part of your Baptist practice. Getting a reality check on this thread might calm your ruffled feathers. For you have been quite high strung, disturbed, agitated, throwing tantrums, disputing over the word HATE when you could have easily looked the word up in a dictionary and thesaurus and confused about historical facts.
Reality Check #1:
Baptists hung around with Luther's crowd 1500 years after Christ and NOT BEFORE. None of them have been able to prove any direct connection with the Apostles. They use much of the Protestant beliefs and have the same anti-Catholic vendetta as they do.
Reality Check #2:
When you are accustomed to cherry-pickings from the Bible, it is hard to know what the rest of Scripture says.
Reality Check #3:
Why is your pastor and Faith Bible College keeping you in the dark about all the rest of Scripture that refers to man being called Father? Even Abraham was called Father. Did you forget? Is ADD slipping in again?
"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not MANY FATHERS: for in Christ Jesus I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU [i.e. become your FATHER] through the gospel....
"For this cause have I sent unto you TIMOTHY, WHO IS MY BELOVED SON, and faithful in the Lord..." (1 Cor 4:15,17 KJV)
"...as a SON [Timothy] with the FATHER [Paul], he hath served with me in the gospel" (Phil 2:22)
"we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a FATHER doth his children" (1 Thess 2:11)
"Look unto ABRAHAM YOUR FATHER, and unto Sarah that bare you: For I called him alone, and blessed him and increased him." (Isaiah 51:2 KJV)
Matt.23:30 -- "And say, if we had been in the days of OUR FATHERS..."
Luke 16:24,30 -- "And he cried and said, FATHER Abraham.....And he said, nay, FATHER Abraham...."
Acts 7 : 2,11,12,15,32,38,39,44,45,51,52 -- "Men, brethren, and FATHERS...unto our FATHER Abraham" (v. 2) "...and our FATHERS found no sustenance" (v. 11) "...he sent out our FATHERS first" (v. 12) "So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our FATHERS" (v. 15) "Saying, I am the God of thy FATHERS, the God of Abraham...." (v. 32) "spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our FATHERS..." (v. 38) "To whom our FATHERS would not obey..." (v. 39) "Our FATHERS had the tabernacle..." (v. 44) "...our FATHERS that came after...before the face of our FATHERS" (v. 45) "as your FATHERS did, so do ye" (v. 51) "Which of the prophets have not your FATHERS persecuted?" (v. 52)
"Men, brethren, and FATHERS...." (Acts 22:1) "...according to the perfect manner of the law of the FATHERS" (v. 3) "And he said, the God of our FATHERS hath chosen thee" (v. 14)
"...so worship I the God of my FATHERS..." (Acts 24:14)
"...hope of the promise made of God unto our FATHERS..." (Acts 26:6)
"...nothing against the people, or customs of our FATHERS" (Acts 28:17)
"What shall we say then that Abraham our FATHER..." (Rom 4:1) "...that he might be the FATHER of all them that believe..." (v. 11) "...the FATHER of circumcision...faith of our FATHER Abraham" (v. 12) "...the faith of Abraham; who is the FATHER of us all" (v. 16) "I have made thee a FATHER of many nations" (v. 17,18)
"...not that ye should be IGNORANT, how that all our FATHERS" (1 Cor 10:1)
"...exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my FATHERS" (Gal 1:14)
"..."we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a FATHER doth his children" (1 Thess 2:11)
"Unto Timothy, MY OWN SON IN THE FAITH [that makes Paul his FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (1 Tim 1:2,18)
"Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a FATHER" (1 Tim 5:1)
"To Timothy, my DEARLY BELOVED SON [again, that makes Paul his SPIRITUAL FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (2 Tim 1:2; 2:1)
"To Titus, MINE OWN SON AFTER THE COMMON FAITH [once again, that makes Paul his SPIRITUAL FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (Titus 1:4)
"...received by tradition from your FATHERS" (1 Peter 1:18)
"...the FATHERS fell asleep, all things continue..." (2 Pet 3:4)
"I write unto you, FATHERS, because ye have known him..." (1 Jn 2:13) "I write unto you, FATHERS, because ye have known him..." (v. 14)
Now what was that thread on Catholic Arrogance about? Was it your usual anti-Catholic lying websites? "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 1,931 Location: Purgatory
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I actually always wanted to know why we call them "Father". Thanks!  But after reading in red, I have to say my eyeballs hurt.   Buona Notte! xo  "I'm not here. Leave a message!"
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=dajcat]the first posting that Firebird made were "if you are not RC you are not saved. It is the only true church. " I put her statement in my first original posting of the Protestant Truths and myths....I have warned you in the past God will only allow it for so long......Even though you think you have it on it is nothing but filthy rags to God when you use it so vehementally against other christians. What are you yapping about now, old chap? Confused again? Aren't you and Sally the ones who started your most vitriolic, antagonistic and hate-filled attacks against Catholics and that too, WITHOUT PROVOCATION? Don't you go at it every day? And since when did God tell you what He will allow for so long? Could it be your fundamentalist rage and bitterness that you spill out on this thread when you can't prove any of your beliefs are scriptural, while Catholics can?
If you can't get my actual statement (THE ONE ACTUALLY SAID BY ME DIRECTLY and not someone else), then pipe down and stop stirring the muddy waters in your brain! You cause confusion and commotion and agitation everywhere you go. I never see you contribute anything of spiritual value on this thread. It is the same irritating, donkey-braying, repetitive, offensive false accusations against us, and denials of God's Word in our doctrines. No Catholic has ever posted such filthy lies, propaganda and slanderous allegations as you, Sally, mikek and weenie have.
BTW, did you worship your Bible today?  "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 6/6/2008 Posts: 2,167
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Nope Firebird I worshipped the Lord of the Bible today. Did you? dajcat
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=dajcat]Nope Firebird I worshipped the Lord of the Bible today. Did you? Nope, I worshiped the Lord of the universe. There is no Lord of the Bible. Surely, you don't want to give the impression that you practice idolatry. "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer] (http://CatholicArrogance.Org/callnomanfather.html. ) This site is from a disgruntled ex-Catholic priest.
Mopping up an ex-Catholic's stuff to fill up your bucket of slop, is not what Christ has called His followers to do. 
You must be really desperate to scrape the bottom of your trash bin! "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 10/7/2009 Posts: 2,051
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[quote=kspletzer]Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? When you post such a long and mindless clip and paste, make sure you know early Christian history - unless you failed the class, since you said it is not your strong point.] (*,)
Wrap your head around this fact. There was no Baptist Church around at the time the Catholic Bible was compiled, nor any of the 39,000 churches that came out of the reformation.
The only Church in existence at the time the OT/NT were canonized was the Catholic Church. Encyclopedia Britannica is a better non-Catholic resource to back up my statements than the Baptist quacks you use.
The Eastern and Western Catholic Churches were in unity at that time the Catholic Bible was canonized almost four centuries after Christ.
Furthermore, it was the Catholic Bible that Protestants used to write their KJ Bible. Since you use the KJV, just remember the history behind its origins. All this has been posted more than twice on this thread, with documented and verifiable sources from well-known Protestant and Catholic historians. Yet, you and dajcat continue to crank out your lies which is sinful. It is quite disturbing to see you both digging your spiritual graves. How can you have the face to preach to unbelievers about Christ when you disobey His commandments with your false witness and slander?
You know Christ hates liars and deceivers. You are the one NOT SHOWING CHRIST'S LOVE with your ruthless and willful attacks against Catholics. Harboring such bilious hatred must make you nauseous and give you migraines and spiritual constipation.  
Finally, thank you for the great opportunities you gave me to:
1) Show what a hypocrite you are - when you use our book to tell more of your lies!
2) To point out your ignorance of early Christian history which must embarrass you.
3) Show how much you wasted your spiritual life with another silly clip and paste that was just shredded to bits. "What we do in life echoes in eternity." - Maximus
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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Who Wrote The Bible? - Evidence of God
Who Wrote the Bible - A Letter from God
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that is undoubtedly asked by many who are familiar with the impact this book has made on people around the world. The Bible gives guidance in our journey through life to eternity, as well as leads us to a relationship with the God of the universe. It is a historical book that is backed by archeology, and a prophetic book that has lived up to all of its claims thus far. In light of all these facts, asking, “who wrote the bible,” is a vital question that deserves serious investigation and a serious response. The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. These claims may seem dramatic (or unrealistic to some), but a careful and honest study of the biblical scriptures will show them to be true.
Who Wrote the Bible - Evidence of Divine Inspiration
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.
God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.
The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.
Who Wrote the Bible - A Question of Eternal Significance
“Who Wrote the Bible” is indeed a question that everyone must ask. If indeed it is the Word of the living God, then no other book gives us more insight into our lives, more hope for our future, and a true path to a relationship with God. Search the Bible with openness and honesty and see for yourself what the Creator of the universe wants to tell you!
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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Bible Authors
There are five perspectives on how the Bible authors received the inspiration of God. They are Illumination, Mechanical Dictation, Dynamic, Plenary, and Multi-Methodological.
Illumination has virtually no advocates among evangelicals. Illumination states that Scripture contains noble insights of people of great faith. While they may be inspiring, the authors are not viewed as divinely inspired. This view undermines biblical authority in that one opinion is no greater than another if there is no Word from God. This view does not adequately account for the supernatural, authoritative nature of Scripture.
Mechanical Dictation has virtually no advocates among evangelicals either. In this view, Scripture is the divine Word of God with humans being stenographers through whom God spoke His message. There is little or no human element in the inspiration of Scripture. The strength of this view is its consistent authority. The weaknesses are many. The process seems impersonal and at odds with the fact that God works through people, not things. There is a claim that it is without any human element and, therefore, it has a higher divinity than Jesus, who was both human and divine.
Dynamic Perspective is the third perspective on how the Bible authors received inspiration from God. In this perspective, Scripture contains the Word of God. The word of God is found in the middle of human perspective. It emphasizes the inspiration of the authors more than the inspiration of the words. This is suggested in 2 Peter 1:20-21: "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." This is an inspiration of thought-by-thought rather than word-by-word. The grammar and history of the time, as well as the personalities and vocabularies of the authors, are reflected in the Scripture.
The Plenary view describes Scripture as being the Word of God. "Plenary means "fully" and "verbal" emphasizes that inspiration extends to the very words themselves, so that every word of the Bible is inspired."1 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17). The strength of this view is that while allowing for the human element, it maintains a high view of biblical authority.
The multi-methodological approach means that the Scripture is equally inspired even if God chose to reveal His Word by many means. All Scripture is inspired but needs to read according to its genre. Genres found in the Bible include narrative, history, the Torah (word-by-word dictation), prophecy, apocalyptic spiritual truths, wisdom literature, and psalms. The Spirit was active in the whole process so the Bible is both the words of men and the Word of God.
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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Septuagint - What is It?
Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC. Widely used among Hellenistic Jews, this Greek translation was produced because many Jews spread throughout the empire were beginning to lose their Hebrew language. The process of translating the Hebrew to Greek also gave many non-jews a glimpse into Judaism. According to an ancient document called the Letter of Aristeas, it is believed that 70 to 72 Jewish scholars were commissioned during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus to carry out the task of translation. The term “Septuagint” means seventy in Latin, and the text is so named to the credit of these 70 scholars.
Septuagint - Influence on Christianity
The Septuagint was also a source of the Old Testament for early Christians during the first few centuries AD. Many early Christians spoke and read Greek, thus they relied on the Septuagint translation for most of their understanding of the Old Testament. The New Testament writers also relied heavily on the Septuagint, as a majority of Old Testament quotes cited in the New Testament are quoted directly from the Septuagint (others are quoted from the Hebrew texts). Greek church fathers are also known to have quoted from the Septuagint. Even today, the Eastern Orthodox Church relies on the Septuagint for its Old Testament teachings. Some modern Bible translations also use the Septuagint along side Hebrew manuscripts as their source text.
Septuagint - What Does It Contain?
The Septuagint contains the standard 39 books of the Old Testament canon, as well as certain apocryphal books. The term "Apocrypha" was coined by the fifth-century biblical scholar, Jerome, and generally refers to the set of ancient Jewish writings written during the period between the last book in the Jewish scriptures, Malachi, and the arrival of Jesus Christ. The apocryphal books include Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus), the Wisdom of Solomon, First and Second Maccabees, the two Books of Esdras, additions to the Book of Esther, additions to the Book of Daniel, and the Prayer of Manasseh.
The Apocryphal books were included in the Septuagint for historical and religious purposes, but are not recognized by Protestant Christians or Orthodox Jews as canonical (inspired by God). Most reformed teachers will point out that the New Testament writers never quoted from the Apocryphal books, and that the Apocrypha was never considered part of the canonical Jewish scripture. However, the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches include the Apocrypha in their Bible (except for the books of Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh).
Septuagint - Is it a Reliable Translation?
Since the Septuagint is a translation, scholars speculate if it accurately reflects the Hebrew scriptures of the 2nd century BC. A close examination of the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text (the early Hebrew text of the Old Testament) show slight variations. Were these errors in translation, or are the Septuagint and Masoretic Text based on slightly different Hebrew manuscripts? The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has helped to shed light on this question. Discovered in the Qumran region near the Dead Sea beginning in 1947, these scrolls are dated to as early as 200 BC and contain parts of every book in the Old Testament except Esther. Comparisons of the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint show that where there are differences between the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint, approximately 95% of those differences are shared between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic text, while only 5% of those differences are shared between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint. Does this mean that the Septuagint is unreliable and that our Old Testament is wrought with contradictory sources? No. It is imperative to note that these “variations” are extremely minor (i.e., grammatical errors, spelling differences or missing words) and do not affect the meaning of sentences and paragraphs. (An exception is the book of Jeremiah, in which the actual passages are arranged differently.) None of the differences, however, come close to affecting any area of teaching or doctrine. The majority of the Septuagint, Masoretic Text and the Dead Sea Scrolls are remarkably similar and have dispelled unfounded theories that the Biblical text has been corrupted by time and conspiracy. Furthermore, these variations do not call into question the infallibility of God in preserving His word. Although the original documents are inerrant, translators and scribes are human beings and are thus prone to making slight errors in translation and copying (Hebrew scribal rules attest to how exacting scribes were). Even then, the Bible has redundancy built into its text, and anything significant is told more than once. If grammatical mistakes were introduced that makes a point unclear, it would be clarified in several other places in scripture.
Septuagint - Dramatic Evidence for the Credibility of Messianic Prophecy
The Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls establish a very dramatic piece of evidence for Christianity – that the Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah unquestionably predated the time that Jesus Christ walked the earth. All theories of 1st Century AD conspiracies and prophecy manipulation go out the door when we realize that prophetic scripture like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were fixed in written form at least 100 years before Christ, and probably many more. Again, despite time, persecution, and the incredibly minor instances of scribal mistakes, the Septuagint is just another example of how the Biblical text has remained faithful in its message and theme. The Holy Bible is truly a divinely inspired and preserved letter from God that is deserving of our time and attention.
“The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.” (Isaiah 40:8)
Not one word of the RCC giving us the Bible-- but it DOES say "The Apocryphal books were included in the Septuagint for historical and religious purposes, but are NOT recognized by Protestant Christians or Orthodox Jews as canonical (inspired by God). Most reformed teachers will point out that the New Testament writers never quoted from the Apocryphal books, and that the Apocrypha was NEVER considered part of the canonical Jewish scripture."
god and his inspired writers gave us the Bible. And please note-- I've told you many times--- We trace our origin from Jesus Christ and his Apostles-- WE are Christians. Not worshippers of Man, A Church, Saints, Prayers for the Dead, Idols or keep crucifying Christ on the Cross. OUR Savior came off the cross, and is sitting on the right on of God-- He is coming back SOON. Are you ready to answer for the sins you have done against his chosen people?
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Rank: King Joined: 3/25/2007 Posts: 2,635 Location: Heaven Bound
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Jesus didn't talk to you nor give you His instructions that you are falsely teaching here. And it is just as well, since you can't handle the truth. Moreover, Jesus appointedhis Apostles and then to us, his saints to administer the saving ordinances, perfect the saints, call us to repentance and preach and teach ALL THAT HE TAUGHT. You have your limited Bible belief from your ancient stories forced on you by Popes and the ADDED books of your Bible. All Christ's teachings are in the Bible. Because telling the false truths is admitting you are Catholic. So inventing doctrines to cover the gaps in your beliefs, is part of your RCC practice. Getting ain touch with God might calm your ruffled feathers. For you have been quite high strung, disturbed, agitated, throwing tantrums,using the word HATE when you could have easily looked the word up in a Bible, don't be confused about what God said-- "Love thy neighbor".
Reality check- The RCC was forced on everyone-- it was the Church of the Government and if you did not obey you were killed. And many were in the Crusades.
Reality Check- People could not read, plus the Bible was in Greek/Hebrew-- so the RCC sais we will tell you what it says- Don't worry. Plus we will also give you many doctrines and sacrements that you will have to follow. So you don't need a Bible.
Reality check- it was till there were a printing press, and men who took the Bible and put into the language of the people-- that the people found out what it really said. Many Bibles were burned and the people killed for owning them. Fortunately there were brave men who held secret prayer meetings with the Bibles they kept-- God's word lived on.
Your Church has done many hurtful things to people and you are leading many to Hell. It's not too late to repent and come back to God and his Word.
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